Ahead of her orchestral tour as part of Music Beyond Mainstream’s 25th anniversary this summer, Arooj Aftab talks Alan Pedder through the songs that have shaped her.
The name Arooj Aftab is, in journalism circles at least, pretty much synonymous with the word / hashtag “cinematic” – over 26,000 Google hits and counting – but, for once, it’s not just vague and lazy writing. In Aftab’s case, the descriptor feels precise.
More than that, it’s a word she often uses herself for the after-hours drama of her music, and the deep, “punch-you-in-the-gut” emotions that rumble through her songs. These are pieces, after all, that tend to move through mysterious landscapes of memory and longing, often with a dreamlike quality that brings to mind the melancholic, sensual cinema of auteurs like Wong Kar-wai and Céline Sciamma, and even Mati Diop, in the way she layers atmospheres of absence to form a sticky emotional residue.
Across her four solo albums to date, Aftab’s music has been the kind where silence and space carry almost as much meaning as the melodies, the kind of music where setting the songs to orchestra could feel like tipping the balance and risking it all. But, as the Pakistani American singer tells Best Fit over video call, the dare has paid off beautifully – at first with the Netherlands-based Metropole Orkest, led by conductor Jules Buckley, and now again with the London Contemporary Orchestra and conductor Robert Ames, with whom she is about to embark on a seven-date UK tour as part of venue collective Music Beyond Mainstream’s 25th anniversary celebrations.
“Playing with the orchestra is definitely leaning into the drama of the songs, and I love to stand in front of that,” she says. “It’s such a powerful feeling with the expansive sound and hearing all the little micro parts that exist in my music being played and being emphasised.”
What began as a collaboration at the 2023 edition of the North Sea Jazz Festival in Rotterdam developed into a Proms debut last year, with Buckley conducting the BBC Symphony Orchestra, and then a six-date tour of The Netherlands in November debuting a full set with the Metropole Orkest. “Of course, it is really challenging to play with an orchestra,” she says. “There are a lot of cues, and you really have to stay on your toes for the whole 90 minutes or whatever, but it’s been really great.”
In terms of working up the orchestral arrangements, Aftab reports that the process has been surprisingly smooth, which she puts down to the nature of the writing lending itself to an orchestral score: “‘Bolo Na’ sounds great. ‘Raat Ki Rani’ sounds great. The songs have all just fit right in.”
For her performances with the LCO, which run from June 15–24, she’s excited to have worked up new arrangements for songs she hasn’t played in this way before. And if you’ve seen Aftab live in recent years, you’ll know it’s not a question of whether she can hold her own against a fuller sound. This is, after all, an artist who grew up on a diet of powerhouse singers, from iconic Sufi musician Abida Parveen to Chaka Khan and Whitney Houston, all of whom shaped her in one way or another.
Fittingly, her picks for Nine Songs are almost universally fronted by singers with otherworldly technical skills, capable of filling vast spaces without losing the intimacy at the core of their music. In that sense, what the list suggests is something already embedded in her artistic instincts, where larger and louder doesn’t have to feel less essential or revealing.
“I’m kind of over the whole minimalism and creating space thing,” she says, laughing. “I want to see what it would be like if I was more maximalist. Louder and more brazen, you know? That feels like it could be cool.”
“Remember the Time” by Michael Jackson
BEST FIT: I think you were only six years old when this song came out. Did you hear it at the time, or is it a song that came to you later?
AROOJ AFTAB: I was listening to a lot of music when I was six years old. I mean, who didn’t love Michael Jackson when they were six years old?
I feel like the energy of knowing Michael’s music in real time is not really explainable. It was like an obsession. He’s the greatest musician and performer of all time. So, yeah, knowing him from the beginning definitely made an impact on my life, and I think it still does.
I watched the video for “Remember the Time” later, when I was older, maybe nine, and that just blew my mind. I thought he was so cool, the way he spins and disappears in the ground. The whole chase scene. And the fact that Iman was in it too. Man, it’s just so good. I couldn’t take my eyes off him, couldn’t stop listening. It was first time I experienced how music can really have an infectious quality, and you can’t really get away from it.
Dangerous was the first Michael Jackson album I connected with, at a similar age. What is it about “Remember the Time” that makes it stand out from the record for you?
I feel like I’m picking it because of the video, but it is also one of my all-time favourite songs of his. I mean, with Michael in general, there’s still so much to this day that we can learn from his music, and the whole craze and the theatrics around it. Of course, the craze around him has returned a little bit with the recent documentary.
It’s really wonderful to see all these different composers and producers who worked with him breaking down the tracks, telling stories, and showing how the different parts of the songs came together with Quincy Jones. I watched a video recently of Steve Porcaro, the guy who wrote “Human Nature”, explaining the story behind it and it was just so awesome.
I like that we’re still learning from his music. It wasn’t that deep, obviously, when I was six, but I felt it all even if I didn’t know how to explain it beyond being “Wow, this is so amazing.” And I still don’t know how to explain to you what it felt like then.
If you think about the song “Black or White”, which had the music video where the kid played by Macaulay Culkin blasts his dad through the roof of the house, I feel like that’s a good example of how there was something that young people could relate to, always, in his music.
“Touch My Body” by Mariah Carey
BEST FIT: Next you’ve chosen a classic slice of late 2000s R&B. Does it feel very of-its-era to you, or kind of timeless?
AROOJ AFTAB: Oh, it’s a timeless song. One of my favourites. I love the way she sings here. Her vocal delivery is a little different from other songs that made her famous, all the power ballads, the use of whistle tone, and stuff like that. She does do some of that at the end of “Touch My Body” but there’s something more conversational about this song, something more playful. It’s really kind of bold, too. There’s a line in it where she’s like, I’m gonna fuck you up if you tell anyone about this. Something like that. I like that it’s risky.
Again, it’s hard to describe why a particular song has mattered to me because I love the whole artist. But I’m picking this one for right now because it’s fun and it makes me feel like I am getting to know her a little bit more. There’s not so much vocal showcasing, which can be epic. It’s amazing she can do that. But I like that there’s something a little more human here.
As a vocalist, I think you just have to love Mariah. Whether you’re into her brand of pop and R&B is kind of beside the point. It’s the ability, the smoothness, the joy, the drama, the dexterity, the innovation, and just making it all seem so effortless. As a singer, I look for that quality. That’s what gives me goosebumps, when an artist is able to do that.
The “Touch My Body” video is pretty epic too. Apparently the actor who plays the nerdy computer guy in the video accidentally hit her in the face with a frisbee while they were filming, and she was actually pretty cool about it.
Oh my god. I haven’t watched the video a lot, I didn’t know that.
We also have to talk about her genius, rhyming “secret rendezvous” with “a Wendy interview.” It took me years to realise she wasn’t talking about a job at a burger chain. I didn’t realise in the US you had the Wendy Williams talkshow.
Yeah, we did. I think the other thing about Mariah – and I do think people have been talking about this more in recent years – is that she’s a great songwriter. She’s a great composer. She’s not just a chick who sings. There’s a lot to look into and be inspired by.
I also love that her sense of humour has really come through even more in recent years too.
Yeah, she’s funny, and you can really see it in this song as well. She’s really a no-nonsense girl.
“Through the Fire” by Chaka Khan
BEST FIT: Next, you’ve chosen a pretty iconic ballad from Chaka Khan, “Through the Fire”, from 1984. A big song with a lot of drama. What does this track mean to you?
AROOJ AFTAB: It’s kind of my go-to karaoke song, and I hate karaoke.
I hate being trapped somewhere with other people screaming and singing. It’s not that I’m judgemental of people who are not singers doing karaoke. It’s that I almost feel like I shouldn’t be there, because I feel like I look uncool because I can sing. If someone gives me the mic, I’ll do it, but then I just feel like I’m ruining it for everybody else.
“Through the Fire” is such an incredible ballad. One of the best ballads of all time, and I love the way she sings it. I remember being amazed and taken by surprise by the way she improvs at the end of the song. I love the chords too. It’s a really well-written, beautiful song. It’s actually really romantic, and I love romance. I mean, it is a little bit sad, but it’s about loyalty in a way.
For me, when an artist can take a really simple sentiment but really pack a punch with it, through the arrangement, the lyrics, and the delivery, it’s something I really gravitate to. I just love everything about Chaka Khan, but if I had to choose one song it would always be this one.
A lot of people have had this as their first-dance-at-the-wedding song.
Weddings? People are still doing that? Huh.
What kind of impact do you think Chaka has had on your own way of singing?
I would love to have the kind of force that she has, but I don’t know that I do yet. I’m just an admirer. Actually, earlier this year I went to an event in LA called the Resonator Awards, which is a gala for women in music, and Chaka Khan was being honoured there. She went up on stage and they somehow corralled her into singing and she did “Through the Fire”, so I was losing my mind.
I hadn’t had the chance to hear her live before and there it was, happening just a few feet away. I was like, ‘Oh my god, this is a moment in my life right now.’ I mean, getting to meet her and to see her play my favourite song of all time is kind of nuts, so that’s definitely staying in my heart.
What did you talk about, or were you too starstruck?
She didn’t really say anything. It was more just like “Hello, goodbye.”
“Didn't We Almost Have It All” by Whitney Houston
BEST FIT: Another classic power ballad here. I love this song too, or rather this performance. The songwriting itself is maybe not that amazing. Do you think anyone but Whitney could have made this such a big hit?
AROOJ AFTAB: Yeah, really, it’s one of those songs that you’d never even think about twice if it wasn’t being sung by her. I feel like it’s kind of a deep cut of hers, but it’s really a gem. Again, I like the heartbreak of it all. I like the almost-ness of it, you know? The sentiment is great, and of course she could sing anything. I feel like more people should know about this song.
Is this one that you would sing along to when it was all over the radio in the late ‘80s?
No. It’s kind of a little secret of mine, I guess. A song I like to listen to every now and then. I probably heard it first from listening to the album [1987’s Whitney]. I like to listen to full albums.
She was just so iconic. I feel like, as a singer, once you hear Whitney, it changes your whole life. It changes the way you sing, even if you don’t sing like her. You listen to Whitney and you’re like, ‘Okay, I need to work harder.’ She was so amazing to watch, so amazing to listen to.
She’s another great example of how music makes me feel all the things I’m supposed to feel, you know? I’m an emotional person, as most musicians are, but I’m also really sensitive to singing. If you’re an artist who can really peel away the layers of a person and get inside their soft heart when you’re singing, that’s really astonishing to me. Like, I won’t forget that you made me feel that way.
When I’m trying to do my own music, I’m trying to channel that ability too. That’s how I want to make people feel, but we don’t really know how music can do that. It’s like, okay, Whitney’s a great singer, but how does the effect of hearing her actually happen? Does it happen kind of cosmically? There’s no real explanation. Some people just have this magic ability, and she certainly did.
“Freedom Day” by Max Roach feat. Abbey Lincoln
BEST FIT: I know you’ve talked about Abbey Lincoln before as one of the foundational jazz artists in your musical education. What is it about Abbey, and about this piece of music, that really speaks to you?
AROOJ AFTAB: I think the first thing I saw of hers was the whole of the Freedom Now Suite, or that’s what I always call it but I think its actual name is We Insist!. There’s a whole series of black and white videos on YouTube that I think I discovered through searching for Max Roach clips, because I was obsessed with him and his drumming. Then, when I saw a woman in one of the thumbnails, I had to click on it and see who she was.
If you haven’t watched these videos, you have to go online and find them right after this interview. They are really incredible and powerful, absolutely spellbinding. I felt like my jaw was on the floor watching it, I didn’t even know what was happening to me. I was like, ‘Who is this? How have I not seen this before?’ – I felt like it was really irresponsible of me to not have been aware of it.
I think I must have been about 16 or 17 when I first watched it, because it was around that time when I started listening to jazz and discovered people like Billie Holiday and Ella Fitzgerald. From there I went straight to people like Stan Getz, Miles Davis, and John Coltrane, then Max Roach, and then Abbey Lincoln. I got into this kind of obsessive bubble, being a super antisocial, weird teenager who doesn’t really hang out with anyone and doesn’t pay attention to their schoolwork anymore. It was all out of the window because I’d discovered jazz, you know?
But having gone down that rabbit hole and found Abbey, I kind of had to stop there. I guess because I was able to actually see her perform and not just listen to her on a CD or whatever, that first time watching the Freedom Now Suite really impacted me, and I just don’t think I have ever been the same.
I go back to Abbey a lot, when I’m feeling lost. It can be so hard now when you want to listen to music. You open the apps and it’s too much. I’m like, ‘I hate everything’ and just go for a walk in silence or something. But it’s always really comforting to return to Abbey Lincoln’s voice and her renditions of songs like “Bird Alone” or really anything of hers. That’s a good place to land.
Did you have her in mind when you were making your own jazz collaboration album a few years ago?
Oh, no, it’s just so different. I mean, if you listen to the way I sing, you probably hear a lot of tonal colours and you would hear a lot of Billie in there. You would hear a lot of Abbey in some of the ways I switch up the phrasing. But it’s subtle.
“Aksar Shab-e-Tanhai Mein” by Reshma
AROOJ AFTAB: I feel like Reshma is a connection between me and my mum, because I grew up listening to my mum sing Reshma’s songs around the house, just kind of casually. She also sounded like her, a little bit, so that’s how I found out who Reshma was.
There are quite a few videos online of her singing live, which are like gold to me because I didn’t get to ever see her live. Our paths never crossed. People write about musicians from all over the world but I feel like Reshma wasn’t really written about that much. We don’t know a lot about her, just the basic stuff really. I mean, I’m sure there are interviews that I haven’t seen, but I don’t know what on earth journalists would be asking women like Reshma in those days, you know?
So, it’s kind of a treasure to have these clips online where she’s performing live and talking to the audience, because you can really get a sense of her as a vibrant and funny personality. All my selections for this list seem to be very vocal-centric, very emotional people, and, again, Reshma was a real powerhouse singer.
This song, “Aksar Shab-e-Tanhai Mein”, is about how sometimes, really late at night when it’s very quiet, it can feel quite lonely, and I love that. I’m such a sucker for those kinds of descriptions of the secret, not so mainstream moments in love that aren’t written about so blatantly. Nobody talks about that sense of… well, it’s not even loneliness. You just have this realisation that you are the only person in the house. You’re alone but it’s not like ‘Oh, I’m so lonely, I’m all alone,’ but more like, ‘Damn, I’m here by myself.’
Another interesting thing is that she usually sang in Punjabi, but this song is in Urdu, so it’s pretty special.
BEST FIT: What is it about the colour of her voice that appeals to you?
I think because she’s got a low voice, which I also have. There’s a depth to it. The colour of her voice almost feels like she’s drawing from something deep and sad within. I mean, I’m just making this up, but who knows? She seems like a probably fun person, but there’s a quality to her voice that evokes a longing and a sadness that I find really endearing. It’s hard to explain, but it’s there.
One time I was speaking to Abida Parveen about this and she explained that Reshma is from Rajasthan, which has this desert kind of landscape, and her voice has a particular quality that’s very specific to that area. I didn’t really understand what she meant at the time, but I kind of get it now.
“Kuchh To Duniya Ki Inayaat Ne Dil Tod Diya” by Begum Akhtar
AROOJ AFTAB: I would consider Begum Akhtar to be my spiritual teacher, in a sense. I’ve learned a lot about how to sing from listening to her and completely being a student of all her records, everything she has ever recorded. In the same way that I have been a student of Ella and of Mariah, and I guess of all the people I’ve talked about today. All of them have taught me a lot. How could they not?
But for me, for the way that I sing in Urdu, I learned so much from Begum Akhtar. I’ve also rendered a lot of her songs in my own music, like “Inayaat” from Vulture Prince. I wouldn’t say that it’s the same song as “Kuchh To Duniya Ki Inayaat Ne Dil Tod Diya”, but it’s an iteration of it.
Begum has the kind of tone that people in the South Asian classical listening world don’t really like. They find it a little too harsh. There a lot of people who love her to death, but there are others who don’t find her voice pleasant. It’s not sweet. It’s not smooth. But I think she’s just wonderful and everything she does is amazing.
All these musicians we’ve been talking about have this unbelievable tone and smoothness to their singing, but she has a very different type of voice. It’s kind of shrill, but I don’t find it jarring at all. I find it really interesting.
South Asian classical music is great, but so much of it is the same in so many ways, so when you find someone like Begum Akhtar who sounds so unique, they stick out right away, and that’s what I love about her. She has these crazy technical skills and does all these weird things with her voice. She’s definitely a legend.
BEST FIT: What do you love about this particular track that you've chosen?
Well, this one is her saying that the world is really disappointing and she's kind of over it, you know? She’s over the way that people are behaving and the way that the world is, and how it’s breaking her heart.
Again, it’s more of a sincere, casual conversation than some heady, lofty poem about love. It’s a little more colloquial, and that’s what I am drawn to.
“Man Kunto Maula” by Abida Parveen
BEST FIT: You mentioned Abida Parveen a moment ago, and this next song you’ve chosen is her version of what seems to be a classic, devotional poem. What is it about her version that makes it so extraordinary in your eyes?
AROOJ AFTAB: Yeah, “Man Kunto Maula” is a really well known, kind of standard in Sufi music that she sings really well. It’s a cornerstone of her repertoire, I think. She sings it live all over the place and it’s a big favourite, a big hit.
Abida has an extremely powerful, projecting personality and voice. She says that she’s not even a person, she’s some other kind of being, and I think that’s true. I’ve had the honour of sitting with her and talking a bit, when I had just moved to New York and was starting to figure out what life was going to be post college, post music school. I was starting to figure out writing my own music, and even just to try and understand what I even like, not just what I like to listen to.
So, to meet her then was really pivotal for me. It really helped in that moment to put a few things in perspective. When I told her what I was thinking about doing, she was like, “Well, you’ve got to listen to music. You have to listen more. You need to listen.” I mean, how could I presume to already know what I wanted to do when I was still studying? I needed to go to shows and to listen to figure out what my sound is. So that was really helpful.
I do think that all music is a spiritual practice. We’re pulling from this unknown, intangible, inexplicable place, between subconsciousness and emotions and real-life stories. As an artform, it’s unique and so delicate and spiritual. “Man Kunto Maula” is a really powerful example, being as moving as it is. It kind of transcends realms, so I think it’s a good one to keep in my heart pocket.
I was reading about how you first met Abida, when you sort of cold-called her by knocking on her hotel room door. That must have taken a lot of guts.
I know! It’s called being young, but I was heavily nervous!
Have you stayed in touch over the years? Has she been there supporting your career?
Yeah, though it’s hard to reach her online, you know? We were supposed to work on a song together but the timing didn’t end up working out. I did start writing it though, and an in-between person sent me a voice note from her where she had all these nice things to say about it. That was really nice to hear.
I actually don’t know if she remembers me from way back. I was waiting to see her again to ask if she remembers me, but it didn’t happen.
“Calle del aire” by Estrella Morente
BEST FIT: Moving on to your final pick from flamenco artist Estrella Morente. You’ve described yourself in the past as a “flamenco head.” How has that music come to mean so much to you?
AROOJ AFTAB: It has a really strong kinship to everything else on this list, I think. Really strong, powerful vocals. Sort of heart-wrenching themes in the lyrics.
The dance aspect of flamenco is really amazing to me. I love the palmas, which is the rhythmic clapping they do. The rhythmic aspect and the clapping was what really drew me in at first, I guess. I watched a lot of old flamenco videos and listened to a lot of old recordings, and eventually I came across Estrella Morente, who is not so old but still sort of traditional. But still very her.
This song in particular is one I really love. The whole record [2001’s Calle del aire] is really inspiring. Again, it’s something that astonished me. I wasn’t expecting it. It has all these elements that are familiar, but it still surprises at every turn. It’s exactly the kind of music that I love, and the kind of music that I believe I try to make.
It takes you on a journey, you know? I love the arrangement a lot.
It really doesn’t sound like it’s 25 years old.
Yeah, it sounds really modern, right? I love how things come and go in the song, how the sections are changing. It kind of feels like you are walking down a street somewhere, which is really amazing.
Do you see yourself maybe working in the dance space or with dancers at some point?
I don’t know if working with dancers is really the vibe for my music, but who knows? Things change all the time.
I mean, I’ve been bringing more drums and percussion into my music lately, and that’s what’s been exciting me. There are all these different rhythms I want to try… Brazilian rhythms, flamenco rhythms, South Asian rhythms, and even just straight up drums, like Phil Collins toms, you know? I’m like, let’s do it all. So maybe I’ll start to see how that all fits.
Arooj Aftab tours with London Contemporary Orchestra across the UK from 15-24 June as part of Music Beyond Mainstream's 25th anniversary.
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