Death Cab For Cutie, circa 2009
This is the second part of a two-part interview. To view Part One, click here.
There has been a lot written recently, certainly in the British press, about the ‘rise of indie’ and how 2011 is the ‘year of indie’—we’ve had huge successes from Fleet Foxes and Bon Iver on independent labels, selling hundreds of thousands of records. Have we not been here before, though? Back in 2003 or 04, with you guys getting mentioned by Seth Cohen on The OC every week, the Postal Service [Gibbard's side-project with producer Jimmy Tamborello] going massive, and bands like like the Shins and Bright Eyes infiltrating the mainstream. Is this new wave of indie any different from before, or just part of the same cycle?
NH: I think it’s an angle to write about. I feel like right now that’s all that is distinguishing a lot of rock-and-roll from a lot of mainstream entertainment. I feel like it’s more of a function of press and journalism than anything. I mean “the rise of indie”, that phrase has been banded around…
BG: It’s been “rising” for about ten years!
NH: Yeah, it’s been batted around for as long as we’ve been a band.
BG: The thing that I feel about it is – I agree with Nick – but I think that one of the great things about where we are culturally now, is that it is virtually a completely level playing field as far as labels go. So you’re making amazing music in a barn in upstate Wisconsin, or wherever, and you put this record out in the world, people are going to find it now.
Death Cab For Cutie – I Will Possess Your Heart
So let’s go back, what is it now? Six years? Imagine you’d released Transatlanticism [Death Cab's last album for indie label Barsuk] into this climate and you were getting major label interest. Would you still sign to Atlantic?
BG: Well I certainly think that, given the way that the terms of major label record deals are now, and probably a lot of indie labels too, which is where they want to own everything, they want to own the touring and the publishing…
NH: Yeah, the merchandising, everything.
BG: We got grandfathered in, in a way, so that our record deal, without going into too much detail, is just a record deal. I think that if Transatlanticism came out in 2010 and had the kind of response that Bon Iver or Fleet Foxes records are having – or even the response that it got in 2003 – I don’t necessarily think we’d be in a position where we’d legitimately consider a major label, because it’s not necessary any more. And I say that with the utmost respect for all the work that Atlantic have done on our behalf, and when we signed for Atlantic it was a different time. And that different time kinda bites us in the ass sometimes, people are always complaining like “why can’t I get the download codes in your vinyl?” and it’s like, because the vinyl in the States is released on Barsuk, and they don’t own the masters, so they can’t put the codes in the record… so we have this archaic record deal.
NH: I feel like one of the reasons that we signed to Atlantic at all is so that we could leave the States. We were on five different labels in Europe, I mean, trying to get Transatlanticism across the Atlantic was like… it was very hard to even get the press to write about our band, ‘cos it was our fourth album by that point, and we’re not a “new band” any longer, and it was difficult. And we really wanted the opportunity to play our music for people outside the United States just to see if it would even connect, and have that influence on people over here. I mean now, today, I joke about it all the time but I think there’s a level of truth to it; most bands, we’re all on one label called iTunes, so it really doesn’t matter if Merge are making the physical copies or Atlantic is, the overwhelming majority of people who are buying records of the kind of music that we make, they’re buying them from websites. That’s the main distribution channel that’s coming in. So you know, I respect the sort of categorisation of ‘indie’ and all that kind of stuff, but until we’re truly independent…
BG: Well, what I can say on that point is that this band started in ’97, our first record came out in ’98, and it was a piss poor time for American indie rock. I shouldn’t say that – there were a lot of great records coming out – but the mainstream, or people who were casually curious about underground things were still not aware of most of the interesting things that were happening at that time, because people had no ability to find out about it. Radio in the states was terrible, MTV, VH1 were terrible, the music industry was still somewhat flush with cash because people were still buying records, boy-band records, in the billions, so indie rock was still not on the radar. Our dream when we started this band was to sell 25,000 copies, our heroes sold 25,000 copies, so they could go on tour and play a few shows and maybe make enough money to get home, and not have to work for a couple of months. That was like the highest echelons of what we thought was possible. And now, almost fifteen years later, we have a much larger… well we don’t have as many huge rock stars, but we don’t have as many starving artists. Like Nick always says, we do have a much larger ‘middle class’, because there’s so many bands, and more every day, and thankfully a lot of people patronising those bands. So the music industry isn’t a place you can go to get filthy rich anymore, but it’s certainly a place you can go earn a decent living, if you’re willing to put the work in.
Death Cab For Cutie – Transatlanticism (live)
Is there anything you feel you would have done differently had you stayed with Barsuk? I know you’ve had no problems with Atlantic in terms of them pressuring you into making certain kinds of records, but did simply being concious of writing for a major label change what you were doing?
NH: I don’t have any regrets about it at all, I don’t think.
BG: I wouldn’t do anything differently, but I think if I could go back and tap myself on the shoulder in 2005, when we were making Plans, I would have just said to myself, “just settle down a little bit…”
NH: [Laughs] Yeah, I think we all would.
BG: At the time, we were doing our very best to convince ourselves and the world that we hadn’t walked through the doorway, that we’re still the same guys, still making the same music. And to a very real extent we were, but the realities and the perceptions of that music had changed drastically. I think that there was – not enough that we’re not still sat here talking to you today – but there was a lot of animosity coming our way and I think we were all, at least I was, reading more of that stuff than I should’ve, and I was kinda hyper-aware of it, getting a bit bummed out and questioning whether we’d done the right thing or not. And I think there was a nervousness around making that record that I wouldn’t say helped or hindered the process, but it was just there. We went out to this barn in Massachusetts, and we shipped everything we’d ever owned out there cos we didn’t know what we were going to need. We were all very on edge, and I’d just like to tell myself, “just settle down.”
NH: “It’s going to be okay!”
BG: And now, six years later, it’s nice to see that record de-politicised. It’s a record that I’m really proud of.
I listened to it myself for the first time in a while today, and even as someone removed from that process, it’s remarkable how different it sounds given a bit of space. It’s a really solid set of songs and I enjoyed listening to it just as that and not as this “Death Cab selling out!” thing that it turned into at the time.
BG: Well thank you, yeah, that was a very politicised record. I feel like there were people, some people, they had made up their minds before they’d heard it, even before we’d signed to Atlantic. So it’s nice and strange when I had people Tweet me before this last record and before Narrow Stairs came out and say “I hope it sounds like Plans!” I’m glad that as we play these songs live, it’s really nice to see how enthusiastic people are about them, because it was a really nerve-wracking time for us. I think we were all concerned that it would be our undoing rather than a stepping stone.
Death Cab For Cutie’s latests album, Codes and Keys is available now through Atlantic.
Death Cab For Cutie – You Are A Tourist
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